A senior councillor has come under fire for walking out of a meeting during a heated debate about the authority’s gas provider.
Members of Lincolnshire County Council’s (LCC) growth scrutiny committee had been discussing a proposal to seek a four-year extension with the authority’s current gas provider, ESPO Energy Framework – which supplies gas to council buildings – at a cost of between £3 and £3.5 million over that period.
During a meeting on Tuesday, June 23, several councillors said they were concerned that other providers had not been fully explored, with some members calling for more information to be provided showing the positives and negatives of each provider.
But the deputy leader of LCC, Rob Gibson accused them of being ‘political’ and walked out of the meeting – saying he was only at the meeting as a ‘observer’.
Coun Lindsey Cawrey called on him to provide more detail about the contract.
She said: “This is a scrutiny committee. We’re on the committee to scrutinise, but we are being denied the opportunity and being asked to vote on – at best trust, at worst, a lack of transparency on which to take informed votes.
“When we ask for data, can we have it? And I put that question to Coun Gibson and I would like Coun Gibson to answer that.”
Coun Gibson replied: “I’m here to listen, I’m not here to answer your questions.”
He also accused some members as being “desperate to make political points”.
Con Tom Dyer went on to deny accusations that some members were being ‘political’ and criticised Coun Gibson’s comments.
“I think the deputy leader of the council has got some gall to come to this committee and the only time he ever comments is when he accuses members of the committee of being political,” he said. “Being political, Rob, would be me saying ‘the administration were elected last year on a pack of lies and have delivered on nothing’.
“That would be being political, Coun Gibson. I don’t think anybody has made a political comment today.”
Coun Gibson replied: “If you want to scrutinise, bring the paperwork back. All you want to do is slag off my officers and cause an issue.”
The deputy leader then stood up and walked out of the meeting.
The committee decided to recommend to the executive that the plans should be deterred until a future meeting to ensure that all options can be properly explored.
After the meeting, some councillors raised concerns about Coun Gibson’s actions – but he says he was removing himself from the situation to allow the meeting to continue.
Coun Baxter told the Local Democracy Reporting Service: “I’m trying to get on with people.
“I’ve got a lot of time for Coun Gibson – but how are we supposed to hold the executive members to account if they’re not prepared to answer questions – and if they’re not going to be in the room?
“We can’t hold people to account if they won’t stay in the room.”
Coun Baxter went on to say that he didn’t believe that committee members were engaged in “political-point scoring” and added they were “ just trying to understand and constructively criticise the proposals which were before them”.
He added: “My fundamental problem with the action of Coun Gibson at the meeting is encapsulated by his comment ‘I’m not here to answer questions’.
“I think he definitely is there to answer questions. I don’t really think that people who find themselves in positions of authority at any council can really complain when people ask questions – whether they’re politically motivated questions or otherwise.
“I mean, when he was elected, he was elected in a political election and now – as a member of the administration – he’s facing criticism, some of which is politically motivated and some of which is not.
“But how can he expect not to face questions as a member of the executive?”
Coun Dyer said he was “disappointed” with Coun Gibson’s conduct during the meeting and said he didn’t believe it was “befitting” of a councillor in his position.
He added: “We’re there as councillors to scrutinise the administration – of whatever political colour.
“We are there to scrutinise what they do and that’s in the interests of the people of Lincolnshire.
“If those meetings get tense or difficult questions are being asked, that’s what we’re there to do.
“Coun Gibson seems to think whenever we are asking in-depth scrutiny-level questions – OK, they’re not easy to answer as we’re asking for a lot of detail – he seems to accuse us of being political.
“I don’t think that is good enough. I think Coun Gibson uses that as an excuse to try and stifle debate.”
After the meeting Coun Gibson told the LDRS: “The purpose of scrutiny meetings is to scrutinise papers brought before them prior to decisions being made.
“The scrutiny members should be able to make comments, suggest changes to be put forward to the executive for consideration prior to making that decision.
“I had advised members previously and during the meeting that I was there as an observer, to hear their comments before making a decision on the item, as per our constitution.
“Some members became overly political so I decided to remove myself from the meeting to allow proper scrutiny of the report in question. I will read the meeting minutes to guide decision making.”
The link to the clip can be found here: https://www.youtube.com/live/8FwtEveLNs4?t=2968s
Earlier in the meeting, Coun Baxter aid he was unconvinced that the committee had enough information to make an informed decision.
He added: “Reform stood – or stand – on this thing about Government efficiency and digging down and lifting every stone in order to find savings. There isn’t any evidence of that in this report.
“And in my opinion, it should be sent back to the officers so that we get more detail of just exactly what conversations have taken place with the alternative suppliers.
“If you went to an alternative supplier – any of them – at the very least they would give you a review of your portfolio – and they would go through each portfolio, each site, each metre.”
Similarly, Coun Ruben Robinson also suggested that the committee should be shown the full costs involved.
He said: “I’m not against the ESPO contract at all, but I want to be told this is why.
“And if it’s the cheapest contract and it does all these things and it’s going to be cost effective – fair enough – I’ll be in favour of it.
“But just saying ‘it’s the cheapest’ or the best way isn’t quite enough.”
Stuart Wright, contract manager at LCC, replied at the meeting to explain: “We’ve reviewed comparable market sector frameworks. Whilst pricing data is commercially sensitive, the procurement’s team analysis shows EPSO performs competitively and sits at the lower end of the market.
“In addition, as the council is one of the founding members of EPSO, it receives a rebate which further strengthens values for money.”
